[00:00:00] Gary: Yeah. I get design agencies trying to tell me that they'll take over the design for us, and I'm like,

[00:00:06] David: Yeah. I'm like, "Dude, yeah, we don't need a partnership of dev- of a dev shop. We are a dev shop." Dude, just 10 seconds of research at least

[00:00:16] David: Hi everyone. Welcome to the BizDev Podcast, the podcast about developing your business. I'm David Baxter, your host, joined today by my twinkie, Gary Voight. What's up, man? Nice shirt

[00:00:26] Gary: Yep. Same shirt, looking cool 

[00:00:29] David: We're all cool here. The one person did not get the memo is our guest, who is Kassidy Jezierski. Hello, welcome

[00:00:38] Kassidy: Hi there. Thank you for having me

[00:00:40] David: All right. So we always like to start these things out with some icebreaker questions to get to know you a little better. You ready?

[00:00:48] Kassidy: We shall see

[00:00:50] David: All right, here we go. Would you rather be the first to market or be second and better?

[00:00:58] Kassidy: Oh, second and better

[00:01:00] David: Second and

[00:01:01] Gary: Yeah, that's the Apple way

[00:01:02] David: The Apple way, yeah. Fair enough trend that you are riding or a trend you think is nonsense?

[00:01:11] Kassidy: Like which one would I choose?

[00:01:13] David: no, which, what's a trend that you think is legit and you're on board?

[00:01:17] Kassidy: Posting on LinkedIn

[00:01:19] David: Posted on LinkedIn, very well said. And one that you think is total nonsense

Like Gary

[00:01:25] Gary: Posting trash on LinkedIn.

[00:01:27] Kassidy: posting trash on LinkedIn. Maybe,

[00:01:31] Gary: AI courses

[00:01:33] Kassidy: I was gonna say something about AI. Maybe building your AI product without actually do c- doing customer discovery

[00:01:40] David: Oh man, that hurts. That one hurts 'cause that's what happened to me. What are you talking about?

[00:01:46] Kassidy: It happened to me too, but

[00:01:48] David: It's so

[00:01:48] Gary: happened to everybody who's ever wanted to build an app.

[00:01:51] David: If anybody's being honest, they've absolutely done that

[00:01:54] Kassidy: Actually, I didn't build using AI, so that's a lie. I just built using a third-party tool, so maybe that's the same

[00:02:01] David: All right. Ooh, here's a good one. Hire for now or hire for two years out?

[00:02:06] Kassidy: Oh,

[00:02:08] David: That's an

[00:02:09] Kassidy: two years out

[00:02:11] David: Something you're hoping they grow into, I think. Do you hire the person who they are today or who you think you can mold them into

[00:02:18] Kassidy: Two years out. Yeah

[00:02:20] David: Yeah? You think you, you like the green bean and mold them in your image

[00:02:24] Kassidy: I was a green bean, so yes.

[00:02:27] David: That's good.

[00:02:28] Kassidy: Stick- I'm sticking with it

[00:02:29] David: we tried that

[00:02:30] Gary: the green bean metaphor. What does that mean?

[00:02:33] Kassidy: like someone who's super green

[00:02:35] David: Wet behind the ears.

[00:02:36] Gary: but what's the

[00:02:37] David: old man

[00:02:38] Gary: having... You guys from North

[00:02:40] Kassidy: Someone who really likes green beans,

[00:02:43] David: Yeah, we only hire people who like

[00:02:44] Gary: him into a giant, a jolly green giant. Nice

[00:02:48] David: I, we did that one time. We hired a green bean, and it will never happen again because of the way that we work. We move so fast, we burned that poor guy to the ground because we're a fixed fee shop, so we only get paid when we deliver, so we expected him to deliver, and that was just...

It was not fair to him. We ended mutually. He was very tired. It was-- We never did that again. So we only hire the the senior, the old

[00:03:14] Kassidy: who are super experienced. I guess it depends on where you're at in your business too. If you're expected to deliver and deliver quickly and deliver super well, then yeah, it makes sense. You need someone who's like up to speed already, hit the ground running kind of thing.

[00:03:29] David: All right, here we... Do you have a lucky shirt?

[00:03:32] Kassidy: Wait, is that for Gary or for me?

[00:03:35] David: Gary. Gary doesn't have any lucky shirts. His shirts are

[00:03:37] Kassidy: Wait, I want my lucky shirt.

[00:03:39] Gary: You gotta send a self-addressed stamped envelope

[00:03:42] Kassidy: You're

[00:03:43] David: Hey, I have a spare. All you have to do is meet me for coffee and I'll give you one of these. I'll give you one of these right here, and then you could be a, the Twinkie like the rest of us. Do you have a lucky shirt, though?

You know how people are su- superstitious about their lucky shirts?

[00:03:55] Kassidy: I used to have one, but it just... Yes, I did have one. It was like a racing shirt, and I wore that thing until it was like the softest T-shirt ever, and it just got so many holes in it that it became a little bit embarrassing to wear even at home. So I had to discard it. I was really not happy about that.

I wouldn't call it a lucky shirt. It was just so dang comfortable

[00:04:18] Gary: I'm getting the Friends episode with the Frankie Relax shirt, the fight between Ross and Rachel over the T-shirt.

[00:04:26] David: I had one of those shirts in high school. I remember it, I don't even remember what it was. It was just blue and it was comfy. But I wore it, and it had a tear, like a big hole, like a hand-sized hole right here, it, next to the neck. It was so embarrassing. My mom was like, "Nah." She just threw it away.

Like I, it was not negotiated

[00:04:44] Kassidy: Sad. I'm sorry. That sounds traumatic, actually. You should have been the one to be able to decide that

[00:04:52] David: When you're young and stupid, 

[00:04:54] Kassidy: wait, what's changed?

[00:04:55] David: So Kassidy, you are the first person we have ever had on the show that we did not introduce you as a title and company, because you are in between jobs, and I think the way you're doing that and handling that is so awesome that I wanted to bring you on.

So I obviously know Kassidy. We've known each other through events around the area for a couple, few years now. And she got laid off this summer, and she has taken on a persona on LinkedIn of, and using her network, and I thought that was so interesting that I asked her to come on. So it's a very different conversation than normal, 'cause normally they're like, "Tell me about your company."

[00:05:34] Kassidy: Yeah, I was wondering about your your decision there, but I was very grateful when you asked me. So

[00:05:40] David: I think the way that you're handling it, 'cause it's a tough time out there. I don't care whether you have a job or not, I think all the business podcasts I hear, this is a low hire, low fire economy. Meaning if you got a job, people are hanging onto them dear life, and if you don't have a job, it's been really hard to find a new one.

And so I know there's a lot of people who are in your shoes right now who are looking for jobs, but they're kinda, doing the standard thing, and I think the way you've been handling it, the way that you've been working on it is just unique, which is mainly a LinkedIn kind of post your way out of it situation.

Am I saying that right?

[00:06:14] Kassidy: Yeah, absolutely. I don't think I could have said it better myself

[00:06:17] David: So what inspired that thinking? You get laid off, you don't have a job, you freak out like everybody else, I assume. I'm, I... You're maybe way more collected when I got laid off this was many years ago, but I got laid off and I was married at the time, and I just freaked. But you go through that just a little

[00:06:34] Kassidy: a little

[00:06:35] David: S- so what was... but you've decided, "Hey, instead of doing the job posty thing and doing all the things that most people do," which isn't a bad thing by any stretch, you kinda went at it about a different way. Tell me about your thought process there.

[00:06:49] Kassidy: I-- thankfully, my last job, my boss encouraged me to build a personal brand. And I was like: What is that? I don't know anything about this. What it-- like, what is a personal brand? And what I started to learn is, just being visible and posting about really what's true for you and what's actually happening in the moment is the best way to build that out, just being vulnerable and sharing what's going on.

And so I started following this woman her name's Courtney Johnson. She's great. And one of the things that I heard her say is that each post, if you think of each post like an at-bat. So at the end of the year, if you post once a month, you maybe have 12 or so at-bats. But if you post every single day for a year, you have 365.

So why not, take as many opportunity or take as many, swings as you can and just see what happens? And so I figured I could either... I got laid off and I figure I can either hide and pretend like this isn't happening and pretend like everything's good and dandy, which is what I wanted to do, or I could be vulnerable and share like, "Hey, this is my story.

This is what happened. I'm in between jobs. Here's what I'm learning from it." And I figured, why not just lean into it and see what happens? And so I made this one post, which w- went something like, " I just celebrated seven years at the organization that I worked for, and the same week I found out that I was getting laid off.

Here's, but here's what happened. Here's what I'm learning, or here's what I'm thinking about." And it, it didn't go viral, but it got a decent amount of attention and it started a lot of really interesting conversations. And I felt yeah, maybe this is really something to lean into because a lot of people seem to resonate quite a bit with it.

Like you said, the job market is tough, and people are experiencing hardship all over the place. And I think just leaning into it and saying, this is the truth of what's going on," I think people kinda enjoyed it. Maybe not in a, like a sadistic way, but, like a, like in a appreciating the vulnerability type of way.

So-

[00:09:09] David: Most people do that vulnerable post thing. They do one post and they're like, "Hey, I lost my job. I'm looking out for my network. Let me know if you have something." That's, and that's the end of vulnerability, right?

[00:09:19] Kassidy: That is, I think that is like a generic LinkedIn post that's already like pre-written. I almost-- 'cause I feel like I've seen the same post over and over from people where it literally says the same thing. "Hey," "Hey, network, I just got laid off," or, "I'm looking for a new job. Please keep me in mind." And it's just so generic and basic, and there's no soul behind it

[00:09:42] David: It's kinda like the automated congrats things that you

[00:09:45] Gary: Yeah. You read it and forget it. No one's gonna remember

[00:09:48] Kassidy: Yeah, or like the, the automated happy birthdays on Facebook. I hate that. I

[00:09:53] David: I have a

[00:09:54] Kassidy: I'm like

[00:09:55] David: If I get a birthday message from you and I look back and the only thing you've ever sent to me is another happy birthday message, I immediately unfollow you. That is

[00:10:03] Kassidy: that is a great rule.

[00:10:04] David: we're done.

[00:10:05] Kassidy: That is a good

[00:10:07] David: rule is if I ask you for, and this is not my rule, I'm stealing this from somebody. Of course, I can't remember who, 'cause that's how that works.

But I'm so bad at that. If I ask you to connect with someone and you ghost me, you can say no, even though that's weird. But if you say nothing at all, we're done. 'Cause me, to me, LinkedIn, we connected so that we could work together or help people or whatever, right? And if I'm giving you a softball like, "This person over here thinks you're cool and they wanna talk to you about you being cool," that's the easiest thing in the world.

You should say at least, "Hey, I'm too busy, so sorry," and if you don't, then we're done. And that's kinda how

[00:10:46] Kassidy: yeah, sorry, especially if it's a specific individual, because that really is like you couldn't make it any easier. It's it would be one thing if you were asking me like, "Hey, do you happen to know a- an agency founder that I can connect with?" It's like you're asking me to go do work with time that you don't know that I have, so I really would, if I were in your position, if someone-- if you were to ask me, "Hey, Kassidy, I see this person, this very specific person is in your network. Could you connect me with them?" It's like maybe I don't actually really know that person, David. Might not be the best." But but I would give you something

[00:11:19] David: I would at least try. My rule is even if we're connected and I don't actually know who you are, which happens, especially if you use LinkedIn as a sales tool, there's a lot of people in my network I don't know. But if I reach out to you and you don't n- you don't have to know me, but you can at least say no or no thanks, or this isn't a good fit.

But if you say nothing, we're done. It's just as simple as that. So you went way beyond the cookie cutter I lost my job message. And what, you got some good response, but you kept going. You've been doing this for a little bit now several weeks, and your network has consider- I saw you mention a post.

You started under 1,000 people, well under 1,000 if I remember correctly,

[00:11:53] Kassidy: Oh

[00:11:54] David: and you're now at over 2,000 if I remember your

[00:11:56] Kassidy: started at zero, David

[00:11:58] David: You had no one on your LinkedIn? You had never been on LinkedIn at all? Okay.

[00:12:02] Kassidy: When I first started on LinkedIn, yeah, it started at zero

[00:12:05] David: It's fair.

[00:12:06] Kassidy: But you're saying-- But what you're saying is when I started getting more consistent with posting

[00:12:12] David: Yeah, like you, when you were laid off in the summer, how, about how many followers did you have?

[00:12:17] Kassidy: Oh, that's a great question

[00:12:21] David: It was just a few hundred I think you said in one of your posts

[00:12:23] Kassidy: I wanna say that it was maybe around November of last year that I had reached 1,000 followers. So I'm not, I'm not like a massive creator by any means, but I'm at like 2,400 now

[00:12:37] David: It's funny though, 'cause the LinkedIn numbers are skewed. 'Cause you're used to like TikTok or Instagram where someone has millions. And I saw a guy who was giving a speech on growing your LinkedIn network, and I looked him up and he had 35,000. Like that's a lot of people on LinkedIn. Now you do have the Bill Gates and whatnot that have millions, but that's seems to me way more rare because it's not that kind of network. And so when I see someone with 5 or 6,000, that's someone who has a lot of followers. That's a, that, that's a lot. I think I'm under that right now. But that's just how I look at it. Now maybe that's skewed. But the numbers are not, so 2,000 is not a small amount. And that's where I was getting...

and I say that not because that, that's a metric in and of itself, but it shows that people are reacting to what you're doing

[00:13:24] Midroll: We believe that business is built on transparency and trust. We believe that good software should be built the same way. Big Pixel is a 100% US-based, fixed-fee, custom software design and development agency built on transparency and passion. No offshore handoffs, no surprise invoices, just a team that treats your problem like it's our own.

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[00:14:25] Gary: You mentioned when we first started talking about you were told that you should build your own personal brand. And then so it seems like the way you're using LinkedIn is almost like you're building your brand story on LinkedIn, telling people about who you are, what you're interested, what you're involved in, and what you'd like to maybe learn more, get to know, from other people.

So is there also the goal with all these at-bats that you mentioned, are you looking for a specific type of engagement from someone to lead into your next career path or are you... Is there something warm you're trying, you're chasing or are you just still kinda putting out there to see what kind of opportunities pop up?

[00:15:06] Kassidy: The latter. Yeah, I'm just like posting about what I'm thinking about and what, what I'm-- what is resonating with me in the moment, what's true for me in the moment. I don't really have an agenda right now beyond truly just connecting with people who are my tribe. They say let your freak flag fly, right? And just, yeah, just like being true and leaning into who you are I think will start to attract your tribe. And, one person might say, "Oh, so and so knows about this." And actually that did happen on a LinkedIn post where I think I was talking about like having more fun or something like that and talking about...

I think maybe I had asked if anyone knows of fun things to do or good vegan restaurants or something in the area to reach out. And someone commented on my post and was like, "Hey, this guy Eric would know." He's, he was local or at least he was. He and I connected, I, I-- he was tagged and made a comment.

He was a good sport about it and I reached out and was like, "Hey, thanks for being a good sport," "i see that we have some things in common. Let's chat." And we're starting to work together actually. He's my coach now. So you just never know like what things are going to appear from posting.

Like it's pretty sweet. Are you a regular poster, Gary?

[00:16:31] David: Gary?

[00:16:32] Gary: I'm trying to be more regular. I do like I guess I should say LinkedIn now is different than what LinkedIn used to be.

[00:16:41] Kassidy: For

[00:16:42] Gary: back in the day, I was forced to join LinkedIn because it was a company initiative for the company I used to work with, and then, we were told, "You have to post at least this many times, and you have to like the company's posts."

And because the company told us to do that, no one did it. So then we all had a kind of a bad taste in our mouth for LinkedIn, but that was years ago. But now, yeah, like lately, I would say in the last year and a half or whatever, LinkedIn seems to be more than just the suit and ties, where can I buy or sell your car type business site, and it's gotten a lot more personality for the people that I follow now, like designers and builders and stuff like that.

So yeah I've enjoyed it more and I'm trying to engage with them more and post more. But I do not have a set schedule. I know there's some people like Christy and David that they'll post multiple times per week for the purpose of that engagement and to build. For me, I should probably do more, but sometimes I'm just like I don't have anything cool to talk about."

[00:17:41] Kassidy: I feel that way a lot too, to be honest. And sometimes, yeah, I just get stuck in my head about it and I'm like, "Ooh, like today just doesn't feel like one of those days where I really wanna share anything," and then I just don't

[00:17:53] Gary: Or I don't want

[00:17:53] David: I think

[00:17:54] Gary: everybody I see in my

[00:17:55] David: feel it.

[00:17:57] Gary: I don't want to keep talking about AI and design tools every single day

[00:18:01] David: If you don't

[00:18:01] Kassidy: wanna hear what you did. Exactly. It's like we want, if you're feeling inspired by something you did over the weekend, let's hear about it. I wanna get to know you well as a person. Do you-- What about you, David? Do you like where it's heading? Because it is very different, 'cause when I first joined, what, like 2013, it was like very career-focused.

They said don't connect with anyone that you don't know." They actively told you not to connect with people that you didn't know.

The-- I think the landscape is totally changing, and I personally really like where it's going, but I would love to, I'd love to hear what you think

[00:18:34] David: I think that from a connection perspective, there's good and bad about it. One, I, as far as I can tell, they have not fallen into the trap of algorithmic feeds, right? If I follow you, I'm gonna see your posts. If I-- as opposed to, most of the other ones, it doesn't even matter who follows you anymore, on Facebook or whatever, 'cause it, the algorithm will choose who sees it, whether it's your follower or not.

And so I think that's nice. 'Cause there are people, when I follow you, I genuinely want to know what you're up to, and so I think that's really nice. I will say the AI slop and the AI bros, and before that, the crypto bros, the I've got a course to sell you, that's too much. There's a lot of that.

And I think that's disingenuous.

I want to know what people are really doing. I know that's easy to say when, But there's so- probably something like 60% of all posts nowadays, regardless of the network, is all AI junk. I don't like

[00:19:34] Gary: thing that bothers me. I try to be nice, if people look to connect with me and, you get that little sheet when you go up to your notifications that are saying, "These people are trying to connect with you." And you're like, "Oh, okay, cool. What do they do?" You'll see one or two that fit, and then you'll see others that you're just trying to decipher whether they're a recruiter or a salesperson or not.

But then you're just like, "Oh, okay, that, that one seems to fit." And as soon as you hit connect, within five minutes, your message inbox is full. You're getting emails from them, and then two days later you're getting follow-up emails about the first email and another message like, "Hey, just tell me know about..."

And

[00:20:07] Kassidy: I can't stand that. I cannot stand that. If you connect with me on LinkedIn and the first message you send to me is, "I have something that you would really appreciate or that you would, that you could use," "

[00:20:19] Gary: we're generating this for our clients. Sign up now." Like

[00:20:23] Kassidy: exactly. I understand and appreciate getting to the point, but if you don't wanna connect with me to build a connection, then eh, I'm probably just gonna ignore you

[00:20:35] David: I can't, I cannot speak on this because I know we do that. We absolutely do that as a company. We, yeah but we try to do it in a... I don't wanna be that guy who connects with you and immediately it's a heavy sales pitch. We typically do try to get to know you a little bit. We try to ask questions, try to see what you're working with.

But ultimately, we are trying to see if we can work together, and I think, I don't think that's against the spirit of LinkedIn. I kinda think that's why we're all here, is to work together and to get to know each other, to work with people we like. So we try to play in that lane. There's probably a line that we try not to cross to be too salesy right off the

[00:21:12] Gary: Yeah, there is. We're not nearly as predatory

[00:21:16] David: we use LinkedIn as a sales tool, no question. And I will say it's not as successful as it was a couple of years ago. People are much more leery because the bots make this easier. Things like Clay, even before really AI took over, things like Clay, those kinds of apps, made pounding someone on LinkedIn so much easier that everyone got really leery.

And rightfully i'm the same way. I would, I'll get the... I love when a, a developer reaches out to me. I'm like, "Did you even look who I, what I do? Did you even

[00:21:45] Gary: Yeah. I get design agencies trying to tell me that they'll take over the design for us, and I'm like,

[00:21:51] David: Yeah. I'm like, "Dude, yeah, we don't need a partnership of dev- of a dev shop. We are a dev shop." Dude, just 10 seconds of research at least

[00:21:59] Kassidy: I still get people reaching out to me like, "Hey, as a director of operations at a software development agency I think you could really use our product." And I'm like, "If you would have taken two seconds to look at what I am about on my profile, you would know that I am not employed there anymore."

[00:22:18] David: Here's what'll blow your mind. I still it's probably been a, a while, but it w- maybe a year ago was my last one. I used to get recruiter emails about projects in Houston, Texas. I haven't lived in Houston, Texas in 20 years. And I'm like, "I don't even know how you found this, my real email address, considering this company didn't exist."

Like, how did you find me and then think I'm still in Houston? It is so wild to me how that happens. About every six months I'll get a, "Hey, got this project in Houston. You interested?" I'm like, "How?"

[00:22:51] Gary: Well, Kassidy, through your experience with this typically we'll ask guests that come on that are founders or CEOs what they have as far as their top three pieces of advice to new founders or CEOs. But you're in a unique situation here where you can offer three pieces of advice to anybody who might have recently lost their job or have been laid off, and then what to do from that, pick themselves back up.

So what would you say are your top three pieces of advice for someone in your situation?

[00:23:19] Kassidy: Post, post, post, and post vulnerably. So there's four. No it's true though. I would say share what happened publicly. If you can lean into, the positive side of it, maybe you got fired, maybe it wasn't such a good situation, and we can all, we can all understand not wanting to share a ton of details about that potentially, maybe if it was your fault or whatever.

But if you have left your job recently for whatever reason, I think it's wise to be somewhat vulnerable about it and be honest and share that. Because you just never know who's paying attention, and you never know who's gonna be like, "Oh I have known you forever," or, "I knew you from way back when, and I had actually always thought that you would be the perfect person for XYZ thing."

So I think just sharing vulnerably. Like I've talked to several people who have been fired or laid off recently and I'm like have you posted about it?" And they're like I was fired and like I'm worried that someone's gonna see it." And it's yeah, that's the point. That's the whole point.

So I would say post for sure. I think also using LinkedIn to connect with people who are in the industry that you might wanna work with or work within. So for example, if you wanna work, I don't know, can you throw out a random industry for me, David?

[00:24:46] David: Genes

[00:24:47] Kassidy: Jeans. Like jeans, blue jeans

[00:24:50] David: You wanna work in the jeans fashion industry. There you go.

[00:24:53] Kassidy: In the g-, in the fashion industry, sure.

Why don't you find the CEO or, some, some decision makers at Levi's and start connecting with them? Start commenting authentically on their posts and start developing a relationship with them. I think that would be number two to like leverage LinkedIn and use it to connect with people who you might actually wanna work with or work for.

What would be a good third one? Someone who's just gotten laid off. Eh, have fun. Use the time to explore and to, connect with these guys, connect with your friends, connect with your family. Try building out a project maybe that you've, always wanted to do and never had the time to do.

Ideally, before you get laid off or before you're in some predicament like that, you've saved enough money where you can actually have a little bit of time where you can, thankfully I've saved up a little money and I feel like I can take this time to really explore what my interests are. And just having fun with it and, having the space to be able to have fun and to just go do things and be yourself and try things.

I don't know. Maybe someone knows exactly what they wanna do and that's great. But yeah, I would say the third thing is just have fun with it. Find a way to look at the positive, to find the positive, to find the ray of light in all the cloudiness

[00:26:26] David: Very

[00:26:26] Gary: Yeah. Yeah we've actually had CEOs and founders on here tell us that, they were in a situation where they were laid off or their company closed down or whatever, and then that turned into an opportunity for them to do what they actually wanted to do or what they've thought about doing but never really had the time to do, so yeah, no, I get that. Now, if anybody does wanna see your amazing post and connect with you on LinkedIn, what's the best way to find you? Just search your name?

[00:26:53] Kassidy: Search my name. I will-- I can spell it out for you, but I think you 

[00:26:56] Gary: We'll put the link in the show 

[00:26:57] Kassidy: that.

Okay, so I won't bother with it 'cause that would take a

[00:27:00] Gary: phonetically go ahead and say your name

[00:27:03] Kassidy: Yeah. So Kassidy Jezierski at LinkedIn. That's probably the best way to connect with me.

[00:27:09] David: Kassidy, thank you so much. I knew this was gonna be a, an interesting episode and a good one. I think it's worth having. So thank you so much for being vulnerable as usual, and joining us today

[00:27:17] Kassidy: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it

[00:27:21] David: And on that note, we are out. We will be back next week, everybody. Thank you so much. Bye.

[00:27:25] Outro: That wraps up this episode of the BizDev Podcast, and this time you get me, Scott Bailey. I am the lead dev over here at Big Pixel, and I know what you're thinking, "I thought David did all the work." Well, not exactly. We have an awesome team of people to back him up. BizDev is a production of Big Pixel, a US-based provider of UX design, strategy, and custom software.

This podcast is edited by audio whiz Matt McCracken and Christy Pronto, marketing guru for Big Pixel. Want to connect? Shoot us an email at hello@thebigpixel.net, or you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, X, and LinkedIn.

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