[00:00:00] Gary: What if the Facebook effect takes hold and it just goes viral, and next thing you know, campuses across the country are loading it 

[00:00:07] Page: I'm I'm hiring

y'all.

[00:00:09] Gary: you're gonna h- you're gonna have to get more server space, you're gonna have to do everything

[00:00:15] David: Hi, everyone. Welcome to the BizDev Podcast, the podcast about developing your business. I'm David Baxter, your host, joined per usual by the man in black, Gary Vogt. What's up, man?

[00:00:24] Gary: Hey, I kinda like that.

[00:00:25] David: Do

[00:00:26] Gary: me that from now on. People will think I look like Johnny Cash though, but I'm way older, so

[00:00:30] David: you're super old. Compared to Johnny Cash, you're really old. More importantly, we are joined today by Paige Conway, who is the founder and CEO of Ensemble.

Did I say that right? I always feel like I say that wrong

[00:00:44] Page: You did ensembled with a D.

[00:00:46] David: With a D. All right, so this is a very fun one for me. Miss Paige is, was with me in Grow, which was the incubator I went through with Teela a couple months ago. And so she and I got to know each other through that, and so she- you're actually the first one from Grow on my podcast.

Even though I've invited several, no one else has said yes. So

[00:01:08] Page: I'm honored.

[00:01:09] David: You're honored. Yes, you should be, 'cause that's how this works. All right, so before we get into Ensembled, I have my opening questions, which are random and often weird. These are icebreakers. Are you ready?

[00:01:22] Page: I'm ready

[00:01:23] David: All right.

Are you the type of person who sweats the small stuff or let it ride?

[00:01:28] Page: Oh, that's so easy. I completely sweat the small stuff. I am very analytical and therefore I dwell, dwell deeply on the details, and therefore lack of sleep. So absolutely do not

[00:01:42] David: Sounds like anxiety incarnate

[00:01:44] Page: it sounds like the opposite of you. I imagine that you just rolls off your back.

[00:01:48] David: wing it. Yep

[00:01:50] Page: Wing it. Yeah, that was your mantra, I think.

[00:01:53] David: Yeah, that's pretty true.

[00:01:54] Page: Yep. Yep. No, I I wish that were the case, but it is not

[00:01:58] David: Hey, there are definite advantages to, to thinking through things deeply as opposed to just hoping and praying. All right, here

[00:02:05] Page: and Brian.

[00:02:06] David: Are you an iced or a hot drink person?

[00:02:10] Page: I am a hot drink person. Of course, time of day matters to some extent, but I am a coffee drinker in the morning, but I'm not more than two cups. I never go past two. And then afternoon, I'm just all water, oh, and Poppi. That's my afternoon treat. So I would say I'm... This was not sponsored.

[00:02:31] Gary: But it could be.

[00:02:32] Page: And

[00:02:33] David: It could be,

[00:02:33] Page: oh, now, hey, there you go. 

[00:02:35] Gary: Red Bull or

[00:02:36] Page: coffee in the morning and a Poppi in the afternoon.

[00:02:39] David: the poppy the watery stuff? What is poppy? My

[00:02:43] Page: Yeah, it's like a, it's-- Yeah, it's like a s- a soda, like a prebiotic soda that's got some s- zip to it. It's just, something different than water.

[00:02:50] David: Fair enough.

[00:02:51] Page: that's my fave

[00:02:52] David: I have a rule on coffee drinks. I only drink iced drinks unless it's below freezing. That's the only time you'll see me drink a hot drink, if it's below freezing.

[00:03:04] Gary: I used

[00:03:04] David: degrees, I'll go in and I'll get an iced drink, and they're like, "You're nuts." And I'm like, "Eh, it's not freezing outside."

[00:03:09] Gary: I used to limit myself to two cups a day too, but the cups just kept getting bigger, so I

[00:03:15] David: Yeah, now

[00:03:15] Gary: that.

[00:03:16] Page: hear it's really

[00:03:16] David: two Yetis a day, yeah.

[00:03:18] Gary: Yeah.

[00:03:19] Page: Yeah. Part of it's the sensation of holding the hot cup. That's part of the whole experience of drinking coffee. David, you're missing out a little bit on that

[00:03:27] David: No, that would make me sweat just thinking about it. No, I don't like it All right. Are you a morning person by nature or by force? I thought that's a pretty good one

[00:03:36] Page: I am a morning person, I would say by force. I-- But I would say I'm most productive in the morning. The first eight hours of the day is definitely my sweet spot for work. And, but we are late night people. We s- we always say we're on West Coast time. We eat dinner late, we go to bed late.

So you know that, what that means is a compressed sleep schedule. Yeah. So yeah, productive in the morning, but still late night people. Either we're on Italian s- time or Pacific time. Yeah. Yeah

[00:04:10] David: All right. I think I might know the answer to this one, but I'm gonna ask anyways. Are you the type of person who is recharged by people or by being alone?

[00:04:18] Page: You'll be surprised at this answer, actually. I absolutely get recharged by being alone. I, I love being with people and people-- I love being with people, but I also get drained from social. So I guess that calls me-- that's an introvert for me. But so I'll spend the whole day with people enjoying being with them, but when I come home, I'm like, "Whoo, shut it down."

So that's how I regain my energy. So I guess that's considered an introvert, even though I may have extroverted characteristics.

[00:04:49] David: You're an extroverted

[00:04:50] Page: you? I'm an extroverted introvert.

[00:04:52] David: Tell me about Ensembled with a D

[00:04:55] Page: Ensembled with a D. Yes. Ens-- We are so excited. Ensembled is the trusted community marketplace for sorority women. We have a platform that allows sorority women to answer the question, "What do I wear to all the events I need to attend?" And then have the avenue to be able to go not only figure out what that is, but also to be able to transact, to buy, borrow or sell buy, borrow, rent from from each other within their trusted community.

And by trusted community, what I mean is the Panhellenic community or within their smaller chapter. But Ensembled is that two-sided marketplace that allows that to happen

Well, Sorority life sorority and fraternity life it's about community and finding your community, and the fact like right now we are we've fully launched at UNC. But it is about finding your people and, So for instance, at UNC, there are about two thousand women in a Panhellenic community, and within that community, there are nine chapters.

Each chapter has its kind of own identity, but girls come in as freshmen, and they're looking for that chapter that kinda gives them that sense of "I could-- these are my people." And so you end up with, one fifty to two hundred of your people in a chapter, and you have multiple events for each semester that are structured and organized.

And those are just ways to kinda connect with both, the freshmen, but also the entire chapter from freshmen to seniors. And the events are, fully photographed, and everything's on social media these days, and so these women, love doing all the events that they have, both philanthropic and social, but they're always photographed because social media is the norm today.

And so trying to figure out what to wear to those events, especially as a freshman, can be challenging because you're maybe not only coming to a new campus or a new state, but you're also entering a new chapter where you may not know the vibe of what that chapter tends to wear to different events. And so our app gives them the visibility into what their chapter wears to events, but it also gives them the ability to find those clothes if they don't come into a campus with those clothes already.

[00:07:06] Gary: Now I have a question. Does this app allow the sorority girls to trade amongst each other or buy and sell to each other? 

[00:07:14] Page: It is. So it is two-sided marketplace. So yes, you're right. It's really two-- It's twofold purpose. One is to be able to recognize and understand what people are wearing to different events, both past and future. And the other component of that is when they see those, those outfits, they can buy, borrow, rent from each other.

A girl in a chapter c- is both sides of that transaction. If she has a full closet, she's gonna tend to sell or rent her clothes, which is economical and very sustainable. And a girl who has a very small wardrobe has the ability to buy or rent from another either sister, a s- chapter member, or somebody in the whole Pan- Panhellenic community. So it saves money, but it also gives them ability to make money.

[00:07:57] David: Okay, so I'm a pretty lady, just assume it for a moment, and I'm going to an event and I'm wearing a dress, a really pretty dress that everybody likes, and but I can never wear it again, right? That's the rules. Okay, so now 

[00:08:14] Page: to some extent, 

[00:08:15] David: to

some extent, okay, 'cause I'm being photographed, and I get that, the photos are forever.

So I wear my pretty dress to event one, whatever it is, and then let's say a year from now or maybe just later on in that semester, I can't wear it again, but I sell it on your platform to another pretty lady, and the pretty lady wears my dress to another event. Is that not... That's okay? 'Cause a different person wearing the same dress, that's okay.

Same person wearing dress, bad

[00:08:47] Page: That's okay. Be-because they tend to like-- They recognize that you're not gonna have that... if you're one of two thousand women, you're not gonna-- your dress is not gonna be unique for every event for those two thousand women. So they do expect to be able to share their outfits with each other, and it happens somewhat right now down the hall.

Someone will go down the hall and say, I've got an event on Friday night. Can I borrow or rent your outfit?" Generally, if it's a friend, you might be able to borrow it, but this is happening on the halls right now because everybody doesn't have full wardrobes to be able to have outfits for ten to fifteen events per semester.

But this opens it up to a broader group of people, but also it's still a trusted community because they're all doing the same things. And also, to be fair, they generally know each other too. So yes to answer your question more cle-- fifteen events potentially per semester. That is a lot of

[00:09:40] David: would, that stresses me out just thinking about that. A semester, how... I'm trying to, isn't a semester only 12 weeks long?

[00:09:46] Page: Yeah. It-- They have an event at least once a week. They have so many events, and they're not all... They're not purely social. It could-- Like, structured social events. They can also have things like game days, which are, organized, but they're less like they're not formal, semi-formals, cocktails, things like that.

So our app allows them, not just for the more formal and semi-formal cocktail events, but they're also ability to have their outfits for game day, which are, cute dresses and tennis shoes and things like that. Or even like themes such as Oktoberfest is a very popular theme, and how many Oktoberfest outfits do you need, right?

So that's also, something that you could rent from somebody or buy s- from somebody in the platform. I've seen those already posted for this coming fall.

[00:10:30] David: I

At the Andrews Launch Accelerator their demo day. And one of the startups that was presenting was a lady, and I'm forgetting her name, but I can connect you. I have people. She makes pins pins like shirt pins,

That are custom for the school, and they're geared specifically towards ladies, and specifically inside of that, sorority ladies, because that's who's buying them.

These are cute little game day pins or school pins or whatever, and she's "We really think our niche is sororities." And I was like, "Oh, you need to meet Paige."

[00:11:03] Page: Yeah, we need to meet for sure. Okay. Connect us, okay?

[00:11:07] David: okay, I'll do that if I ever remember their name. No I'll find that. Anyway, I thought about that. It was like, I didn't realize so many people were targeting these ladies, but I guess it's a good market 'cause inherently they have money, that's a pretty good safe bet, and they buy stuff, right?

Th- that's two good things about this market

[00:11:24] Page: It, the sorority market... Yeah, go ahead

[00:11:27] Gary: I would just also say that just sororities and I guess fraternities as well, they have like a, a traditional kind of thing that they just follow. So if you get in good with them and this app seems to work and, it doesn't just go from one semester, it goes to that year and then the next year and then the next year and, they're just gonna consistently keep using it.

It's gonna grow that

[00:11:45] David: Well, and they're immortal, right? That's the other thing. They're immor- And as long as the concept of sororities keeps growing, which I know right now they're having a moment they're, that's basically immortal, right?

[00:11:55] Midroll: We believe that business is built on transparency and trust. We believe that good software should be built the same way. Big Pixel is a one hundred percent US-based, fixed-fee, custom software design and development agency built on transparency and passion. No offshore handoffs, no surprise invoices, just a team that treats your problem like it's our own.

UX and design are core to everything we do. Not a phase that gets handed off, but a discipline that runs through every decision we make. We bring the expertise to build what your business needs and the clarity to know when AI and technology help and when they get in the way. We provide our clients honest assessments of where they are and how they can get where they want to go.

Your idea deserves the right team. Let's talk, plan, and create something that truly works for you. 

[00:12:56] David: so you have a, an illustrious business history. What made you go into this? You've d- been doing this about a year.

What made you... what enticed you to go this way?

[00:13:12] Page: Yes. I had a career in finance, but also was in an en-environment that was very entrepreneurial at the time, which I loved. I loved the idea of being in an organization that was growing and everybody was putting in a hundred and fifty percent because we all were like purpose-driven, and that was a really fun time in my career.

Then I took the break, and then, a lot of this was just born from personal experience. My daughter was-- she rushed at UNC and was in a sorority, but she, was really clear that she was home one day and was just lamenting over all the events that she realized that she had to be dressed for with a very small closet and just was like, "I don't understand why I don't know what to wear, and I don't even have any idea on how I'm supposed to get something."

And so I just thought this should be an easily solvable problem. Like, why isn't this something that's just an ob-- an obvious solution to this, right? Someone just needs to create something where these girls can see what they're wearing without having all the group chats and the strings of text that create a lot of anxiety.

And also just it would be much more economical and sustainable if they can just have a platform where they can share, borrow, buy, rent from each other, where it just makes more sense to take the full closet and share it with the closets that's not full. And just decided that this is something I could do.

So I'm pretty motivated person and excited to do something kinda new and had the last kid out the door and thought this is a good time to try something different. So last summer, I did a survey of a hundred women at three-- a number of chap-- all, all chapters actually at UNC and got feedback that it was not just my daughter's problem, but that in fact, they all struggled with knowing what to wear and how to get-- and how to get it.

And I thought, "Okay, that's a real problem, and let's see what we can do to solve it." So that's where the whole idea was born, and that's where I s-- decided I'm gonna figure out how to code this thing.

[00:15:11] David: So I know this from Grow because I've heard you give your speech many times and I've always been impressed by it. Tell me how you got this thing built

[00:15:21] Page: Yes. I the front end, I vibe coded the front end. I spent about two months... I spent most of last summer actually learning how to vibe code and I did everything from Figma to Stitch to I used Lovable for the first iteration of the app, which is a vibe coding app. And I built the first the MVP using Lovable, which is a vibe coding app.

Realizing in the spring, however, that I needed more information about metrics and be able to really make iterations on it more quickly. And so I also realized that at the time, Lovable did not allow you to have access to your own Supabase account, and that was problematic for me. So I ended up finding somebody who could take my database, migrate it over, so I had my own Supabase back end.

And so then that way I was able to convert everything to Claude Code, which has been, like, amazing. So yeah, so I just- Listened to a lot of podcasts, watched a lot of YouTubes. The world's changed since last August. It's been extraordinary what you can do with AI today. And yeah, I built it.

I built the whole front end and the MVP and everything up to today myself the working app, just by learning how to do it and just spending a whole lot eighty hours a week trying to make it work.

[00:16:42] David: So let me poke you a bit. I want to, 'cause you're the first, correct me if I'm wrong, Gary, but I think you're the first person who has a functioning startup that we have interviewed that completely vibe coded it. I think that's right. Am I wrong, Gary? I think that's right

[00:17:00] Gary: N- no, you're right, 'cause some of them were like a, a hybrid, but

One that I know of that's 100%

[00:17:07] David: And alive, right? And alive. How did you... 'Cause I, and I think this is interesting, so I'm poking you a bit

[00:17:14] Gary: When you say live, do you mean downloadable in both app stores, Google Play and Apple? Okay.

[00:17:20] Page: Just Apple

[00:17:21] Gary: Oh, okay

[00:17:22] David: Apple. So how do you, how did you handle security and scale? As someone who doesn't, six months ago, eight months ago, a year ago, whenever, didn't know what those words meant in terms of apps, how did you solve that? Because I know that's one of the big things that I find most Vibe coders have no idea how to deal with.

[00:17:42] Page: You're exactly right. And in February of this year, I brought in a backend engineer to do my security, to RLS security and all of the s-safety components, because that is a part that I knew I did not how to, know how to do, and I would not have had the bandwidth to ever learn that because I don't have a coding background.

And so I was able to bring in that person who was able to do that, who also migrated the database for me. So I just did the front end, and that was handled on the back end by the real deal. And that's critical because I wasn't gonna do that. That-- And also, I've got... This is a, an app about trust, and so there was no way I was gonna allow any sort of issues with privacy or security to leak.

And this needed to be secure before we went live. So yeah so although I did vibe code it myself, I have some backend engineering support.

[00:18:33] David: Okay. No, and that, that is what I would've assumed, but I, the state of the art is changing so fast, even for me, and this is what I do for a living that I was wondering if I had missed something. 'Cause I typically recommend to startups when I mentor and that kind of thing, dude, at some point, like right now I'm a coach at Grow, which is fun.

[00:18:54] David: And my mentee, which is a weird word but he is, he's vibe coding his app and he's in the health space and I'm like, "Oh, dear Lord, please, for all things holy, before you invite your first pilot customer, please have someone who's really into security," 'cause now you're in health, right? Like that's HIPAA, that's all sorts of crazy stuff.

[00:19:15] Page: that's big. Yeah,

[00:19:16] David: And so he, and he was like, "Sure, absolutely." Yeah, he's not going that far. But I just want 'cause, 'cause I don't think that's something inherently you're just gonna think to how do I get... aI knows how to make a secure app, but not if you don't tell it. It's not gonna do it on its own, and that's the thing I think a lot of

[00:19:34] Gary: its language or the

engineering la- you still gotta be able to speak the engineering language at least to know how to structure that. I had a question how are you handling the payment processing for both buying and renting?

[00:19:47] Page: It's all handled through Stripe Connect we've set up. Yes and that's been also, just I did set that up, but the engineer just secured that for me.

[00:19:55] Gary: Yeah, 'cause I think that's getting easier and easier vibe coding-wise too

[00:19:59] Page: Right

[00:19:59] David: man. So I'm old and I've been around forever. Not as old as Gary, of course, but when I started developing, Stripe did not exist. And so if you wanted an e-commerce platform, you had to build that stuff from scratch on your own hardware. And I don't think people realize how much Stripe, in particular, changed the world when they came out.

They've been out for 20-ish years. But people-- there, th- there's truly a before and after, and it was all based on Stripe. 'Cause everyone followed Stripe. Like now they're all like this, but Stripe was the original one to allow a normal developer even, to be able to securely take payments easily. M- mind-blowing, 'cause every startup uses payment in some capacity.

It's how you make money. And it's just People just don't-- I think they need, they get, need to get more credit than they do, even though they're fabulously successful and rich, so maybe they have. But it is, I, as someone who's old enough to remember before Stripe, man

[00:20:55] Page: No, I ca- I can't envision-- I can't imagine trying to set this up without that mechanism. 'Cause that's an entirely different... that's an en- that's an entirely different business if you don't have that set up. And there are all kinds of legal, ramifications if you're not s- you're, you don't wanna be considered a bank and holding money and

[00:21:09] David: PCI compliance is fun.

 well, and

I will tell you the, the key to security for anyone who's building an app, the key to security I have my analogy that security is a wall, and you can build it as high as you wanna build it by investing more in building the bigger and bigger wall, right? You can put guns on it, you can put spikes on it, whatever you want, and that just is more and more effort.

The value of that wall depends what's behind the wall. If I don't have anything of value on the other side of that wall, then I'm not gonna spend much effort to climb it. Does that make sense? So if I am the United States government, what is behind that wall is infinitely valuable, right? So they have to spend gazillions of dollars, and I can't imagine being that guy who's responsible for this, right?

'Cause they're being attacked by people with unlimited resources, right? Another government who can just print more money to go attack you some more, and they're always fighting. But if you as an app developer, if you don't put anything interesting behind the wall, then if they do climb it, it's not that big of a deal, and so not a lot of people are gonna try it.

And that's where Stripe and the come into play. Like storing Social Security numbers. Never do that. You should never do that. Any app developer, their goal is to make your app as useless as possible from a hacker perspective, 'cause if you did breach me, you got an email address. Congratulations. W- like there's no value there, and that's the really the key to security.

It's to avoid owning the juicy stuff. Let Stripe deal with that. They're a billion-dollar company. Let them deal with that. Anyway, there's a security 101. 

[00:22:46] Page: Yep. Yep, I agree. I, and I've vibe coded a couple different apps too and I would actually say that, and some would, and would-- some would need Stripe, and most would need Stripe actually. But you're right about the level of security varies depending on the values, the value, of the value you have in the app itself and the other piece of that would be, like, if I were to give some ins- some, you know, feedback to anyone else who's, who is vibe coding right now is start with something small. It's not a great idea to start with a two-sided marketplace. That's kinda hard. So start with something a little bit more realistic and then kinda work your way up.

I did not do that, but yeah,

[00:23:21] David: Hey,

[00:23:22] Page: foray.

[00:23:22] David: Ambition it's

[00:23:23] Page: Yeah.

[00:23:24] David: So you guys just had a big y- a big few weeks, right? You just went live officially for the launch of this year, the school year.

How did

that go?

[00:23:34] Page: We did. It's great. We, David, we like ran a beta, like a private beta in April of this year with three chapters, just a very small group for three weeks, and that whole idea behind the beta was really just to get some feedback, see how the app was being used, see what other design features we could add, things that were being, you know, helpful, things were not helpful, where the bugs were, and things like that.

And so we ran that for three weeks, spent a lot of the summer iterating on that, and we're targeting August before school started to launch, and we did. So we launched on August tenth, and that's been great. And our, our whole strategy is to really seed the app, so basically get the supply into the app before we then encourage demand, which is basically we're asking them to go ahead and pos-post their outfits into the app now so that when actually the events begin after Bid Day, which is tomorrow, then there are outfits in the app that people can start referring to for the events that are gonna be coming up and be able to transact as well.

So yeah, we've launched, I guess it's been two weeks now, and that's been good. The launch was to get people in the app and to get started, and we'll really see, I think, the, the full measure of people's attention and i-interest and postings once they get through Bid Day because they had a full week. It's called Work Week, where they actually spend a week like preparing for rush season.

That's a whole thing, David. Like there's a week of work, and they're literally working like six to nine hours a day, and then they have Rush Week, where they're again working, six to nine hours a day trying to recruit girls and just introduce them to their chapters and get to know that chapter and that chap- chapter's philanthropic missions and what they do.

And then, Bid Day is tomorrow where girls are placed into the chapters, their chapter homes. And so life then begins like for these chapter members after Bid Day when they find out what the events are and begin that process of trying to figure out like, "Okay, I just got here from like New Jersey.

I have no idea what the South wears," that kind of thing. So we're right-- we're in the thick of it right now, which is exciting.

[00:25:46] Gary: So you mentioned from New Jersey or whatever. Did you launch basically just within the North Carolina region or the Triangle region or the whole East Coast? How far

[00:25:58] Page: we just launched-- we only launched at UNC. This is-- we've just launched with one school, and it's, a function of geography and knowing the group. I had a lot of connections. My own chil- two of my own children went there. So I just was able to recruit a team from UNC to really help develop and create the app the way we wanted it.

So therefore, we also presented it to UNC first, and so we're kinda going deep at UNC to get it right with the idea that we'll then expand in January to other North Carolina campuses before we go beyond that. 

[00:26:31] Gary: What if the Facebook effect takes hold and it just goes viral, and next thing you know, campuses across the country are loading it 

[00:26:39] Page: I'm I'm hiring

y'all.

[00:26:40] Gary: you're gonna h- you're gonna have to get more server space, you're gonna have to do everything

[00:26:43] David: anymore. What is that? These girls aren't on Facebook, you old

[00:26:48] Gary: No, no, I'm talking about the way it went viral through college campuses

[00:26:52] David: Oh, we ran a social media campaign that started right before launch, and so we've had that campaign... I have one of the girls on my team interned for me this summer, and she was in charge of social media. And so the end of July, she-- we launched our social media "Here it comes.

[00:27:08] Page: Getting ready at UNC. This is what we- we're gonna bring to you, UNC." And as of... I didn't look this morning, but as of like toda- yesterday, we had 94,000 views on our Instagram and we had nine po-

[00:27:22] Gary: that virality, not the actual Facebook

[00:27:25] David: I am

[00:27:25] Gary: yeah, no one uses Facebook anymore

[00:27:28] David: I told you this during,

[00:27:29] Gary: putting out propaganda

[00:27:30] David: I t- I told you this during Grow, and i- it's even more true now when I hear you talk about it. I am so jealous of the fact your market is so perfect because y- of course they're gonna be on social media. Of course they're gonna tell their friends. Of course this is gonna spread virally. Someone at Rutgers University is going to wanna dress and be mad at you 'cause you're not at Rutgers. This is the problem you're gonna have, not the who's my c- who's my customer base? Who am I supposed to be targeting? I don't know. I need to do customer discovery and find out anybody who I can email who might beg, borrow, or steal my app.

You're just fighting off the hordes that are gonna steal your app. Or not steal, but, use it. And I know, 

[00:28:15] Page: Yeah 

[00:28:16] David: so jealous of that 'cause that's just, and I've heard that before. If you find product market fit, it's like the Grand Canyon. You know when you see it. It's not subtle. It's not a little ditch.

It's the Grand Canyon, right? And it just flows, and your customers, they're so excited that they come to you in, in, not in huge droves. I'm not, it doesn't happen like that all the time.

But in your case it might. But I just love that, and I'm so jealous and because that is so cool.

[00:28:43] Page: It's a ex- it's a great problem. It's a little terrifying, but it is a great problem. We-- the last fee-- we have a landing page where we just get, you know, a wait list, and I-- the last one I saw was from Rhodes College out of Memphis. "Hey, could you introduce this here?" And I'm like, "We're not ready for, we're not outside our state yet." Part of what we wanna do is we need we got-- we need to scale quickly because they're telling us, "We want this." And that's really my next, focus is like, okay, how are-- how can we get this out there more quickly because there is a demand there.

You guys have s- you-- Even if you're not familiar with the sorority phenomenon, you've seen on even just the news about, Bama Rush and 

[00:29:23] David: They're 

[00:29:24] Page: doing a 

it's definitely a thing. And they are not just... But, and when you have ninety-four thousand people see your Instagram page and it's only for UNC, you know that there's just, there's more, it's beyond what you're targeting to start because there aren't, there are only twenty-five thousand undergrads at UNC.

W-we realized that, this is a... If we wanted to reach out nationally and do an, an Insta-- a social media feed that was more nationally oriented, don't think, we'd be drinking from a fire hose. And that's, that's a, a wonderful problem, but it's a real... scaling right now is critical for us, and so that's a really, something we're really gonna be focusing on. My, my coach for, from Grow was fantastic, and he was like, you gotta get this right, and then you can scale it." We're still really focused on getting it right at UNC and making

[00:30:14] Gary: That's what I would be nervous about, making sure the experience flows, especially

for this demographic, 'cause if it feels clunky, they're just gonna be like, "Forget

[00:30:21] Page: They're n-not a forgiving demographic because they've-- they're used to Instagram and very, absolutely. 

[00:30:28] David: If I were to put on my mentor hat, I would say e- to be very careful of the shiny things at other schools until you know for certain that there's money to be made. 'Cause if you can't make money at UNC, you're probably not able to make money. You know what I'm saying? You're not gonna go to a smaller co- UNC is a very prestigious, it's a wealthy area.

If they're not spending money and you're not making enough of a cut, you know what I'm saying? Like when your CAC and all that gets... If it's so out of whack, you're like, there, there is still the possibility that you could have a very viral app that makes no money. And that's the one thing that has to be nailed down before the shiny objects come.

'Cause then you know, okay, I know that every school I get into, 10% of them are gonna use us and we're gonna make this much money a month, and you can start doing math like that. And that's where a lot of people are like, "I just wanna grow," and they leave revenue behind. And those, those free people are still eating your servers.

They're still using their database. They're still costing you money. And until

[00:31:27] Gary: you start throwing ads for l- local dress shops in there

[00:31:32] Page: There are lots of different opportunities. You're right. The beauty of our demographic is that our CAC, our customer acquisition cost is almost nothing because they, they-- they're the ones who are doing the publicity. They're the ones who are advertising for us. We have no paid advertising.

And one sorority at one campus have-- they have friends at other campuses, so they're talking to each other. So they just have this natural inclination to share things they like, and if they like it, they're going to share it. And so the key is to get it right. And so if we get it right at UNC, it will naturally be shared.

It already has been shared, but it will naturally be shared with other campuses and other affiliated chapters, across the country. But we gotta get it right, make sure it's what they want and get it right now

[00:32:15] David: I would challenge you on the thought that your CAC is zero. Because just because someone signs up for free, that's not your customer. That's a mooch. Your customer is the person who rents or buys something from you. That's who makes you money. If you're a mooch, you could have-- and you could go viral and everybody's looking, and then they get to the point where they're trading dresses using your platform, and you still go out of business.

You could have a million people doing that and you make nothing, right? That's 

[00:32:46] Page: there, there, are two things with that. So first of all, the-- we can't have a mooch get in because we are gated by an invitation code, so you can't even get in. You can't go on our app and get in. You can sign... You can download it, so I'm not even counting downloads. But you could download it, but you can't get in because you have to have an invite code from your chapter, and each chapter has their own administrator.

So you have to be-- For A, you have to be a chapter member to be in the app at all. And then 

[00:33:11] David: member but I don't buy anything, aren't I mo- I'm still a mooch

[00:33:14] Page: Oh you could do that, but you-- And you could mooch by saying, "Oh, hey, I saw this dress from so and so who lives one floor below," and you could go and do that. There, there are two things... That would be leakage, right?

So but you-- it could happen that way. But one-- there are two things that happen. One is if it's not on the platform, there's no digital paper trail, there is no confirmation of pickup and drop-off, which we have all on the app. We also have the ability to say we want it returned, in this condition, dry cleaned, freshly laundered.

That's all in the app. We also have a replacement value that's li- put in the app that someone agrees to. So there are lots of like checks and balances in the app that you don't get from walking down the hall. But also, the, the girls also, we have two thousand girls on a campus. You might know everybody on your hall or the hall below, but you don't know the other eighteen hundred that are out there, and yet they're still chapter members.

And at the end of the day, girls talk. They know who's doing what and who's gonna return their items in good condition and who's not. And and, if there's leakage outside that, we-- I can't say we're not gonna expect some. Of course, there's just gonna be some. But at the end of the day, if someone's using you to be able to meet up at Starbucks, that's all in the app too, where you can designate a meet up location.

It's all affirmed in the app. The paper trail is all in the app. It's really hard to do just by a group texting somebody that you don't really know. And also the other thing is like generally classes tend to share with each other, but a freshman's never gonna ask a senior, "Hey, can I borrow your dress for formal?"

She's just not gonna do that because there's that discomfort, level of a freshman. She's scared. She's not gonna do it. But if it's in the app, it's fair game and they're gonna meet up and like it's, it's a transaction that occurred. That's a, a very fair point, but I think we're looking-- we're trying to find ways to make it worth it to the girls.

It's a very low transaction fee, but make it worth it to girls to stay in the app and not go off platform.

[00:35:01] David: Sure. I'm excited for you. I... what is next for Ensembled?

[00:35:05] Page: Yeah. Next is getting it right at UNC. We're gonna add a couple of features, I think. We plan to expand about five campuses, maybe UNC-- Are-- You've got one at UNCW, right?

[00:35:16] David: I have one at UNCW, but she's not a sorority girl

[00:35:19] Page: Okay. We might be there. Yeah, so five campuses in January is the current plan, and then at least five more before we go through rush again in the fall of next year.

That's like the, the shorter term fan, the shorter term timetable. But yeah, we're just wanna get it right and then we'll see how quickly we can scale it. So pretty exciting. I have this great team of girls, young women who have been part of this, and I can't like not give them their due because they're amazing young women.

They are just... They have been all in and been with me from the start and have really been instrumental in making this platform. They've just-- they've helped design it to be what they want it to be and like they're just extraordinary young women. I'm really proud of them, but I'm also like just thrilled to have had the opportunity to lead them and get to know them and, be part of what's happening on their campus.

So yeah. 

[00:36:12] David: Very cool. Gary, close us 

[00:36:14] Page: Yeah

[00:36:14] Gary: If you could take three lessons from building this business, from everything from the conception of the idea to vibe coding it to, launching it, what would you say your top three pieces of advice from this that you can give to a new entrepreneur?

[00:36:29] Page: The very first piece of advice I would give would be ask a lot of people a lot of questions. An interesting thing about this ecosystem, this is the tag word these days, but like honestly, people are happy to help you. If you ask, if you humbly ask for help, people will he- will help you.

What I didn't realize before I started was I thought, "Oh, you have to keep this a secret because someone's gonna copy your stuff." Anybody can copy your tech, but they can't really copy your distribution, and they can't really copy maybe, how you're going about getting your customer base necessarily.

So they're super happy to help you make your business work because everybody's kinda in it for the same reason. We want this environment to be a really strong ecosystem for startups, and I think we're doing better. So that's my first thing would be to ask a lot of people a lot of questions. And then secondly, I think this is a lot of what we heard in our Grow cohort, David, but heard this just continually in my NC Idea cohort too was, which was just make sure you know your customer and the customer's pain points before you build what you think they need.

So know what the problem really is before you build the solution to it. And I think we were really lucky that I had the input of all those women to say, "Ooh, this is really difficult for us, and let's figure out together how to build something to fix the problem." And I had the benefit of a very interested, engaged community who wanted to be involved in something that would help them.

So ask your customers first before you build what you think they need. Maybe that's a little cliché, but it's very true, and and that's exactly what helped us get to where we are right now. And then one thing I think, and maybe you nod that you nodded to this, David, was which was, make sure you're measuring the right thing.

Are you measuring-- What metrics are you using to measure the success? Set what you think are success measurements and then measure the right thing. I initially thought, "Ooh, measurements are gonna be how many people get in the app." But actually, measurements should be more like how many people are posting in the app.

What's, what does that supply side look like? Or maybe the measurement should be how many people are transacting in the app. Maybe that's the measurement. Go ahead and think about what measurements and metrics you want to use to consider what is considered a success for your business, and then reevaluate those on a regular basis because it will change.

Because especially because what you thought you knew, you don't know, and maybe something's completely different than what you originally anticipated, and therefore, your metrics and your measurements may change as well. So those would be my three pieces.

[00:38:59] Gary: Very good. Now, if anybody wants to learn more about Upage or learn more about Ensemble, where's the best place to find you?

[00:39:06] Page: Yes. I'm on LinkedIn and Ensembled it is an app on iOS, but it's an App Store app, but you can't actually get into the app unless you're in a sorority. But any sorority members who might be listening to your podcast they can certainly, uh, take

a look at the... Yeah, I know. I heard, I've heard, yeah.

And they can certainly take a look at the previews in the App Store. And then we also do have a landing page website, which is ensembled.app, and that's where we can take any sort of emails or anybody who has questions about it, we're happy to, I'll personally respond to those emails with anyone who's interested in more information about what we're offering.

[00:39:42] Gary: Cool. G- we'll make sure that those links are in the show notes as well for anybody so they can just click on them

[00:39:47] Page: you.

[00:39:49] David: Ms. Page, thank you so much for joining me. This has been so much fun

[00:39:54] Page: Thank you guys. I appreciate it so much. 

[00:39:56] Outro: That wraps up this episode of the BizDev Podcast. Thanks for listening. Let us know your thoughts. We'd love to hear from you. Shoot us an email at hello@thebigpixel.net or connect with us on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, X, and LinkedIn. BizDev is a production of Big Pixel, a US-based provider of UX, design, strategy, and custom software.

This podcast is edited by Matt McCracken, yes, that is his name, and me, Christy Pronto, marketing guru for Big Pixel

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